Sycophant Hex ~ View topic - WHAT NOW FOR SNAPE ROMANCERS? AN ANALYSIS OF HBP SNAPE

Author

Message

< The Library ~ WHAT NOW FOR SNAPE ROMANCERS? AN ANALYSIS OF HBP SNAPE

ambi76

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 9:16 am

Joined: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 9

It's vaguely disconcerting to hear so many "snape fans" pronouncing the entire fandom in denial. Truly, I think this is a sort of assume-the-worst-so-you-don't-get-hurt-when-it-turns-out-to-be-true reaction by some... and a simple "I know JKR better than you do" for others.

Truth is, all, that a) fanfic will go on always, 'till some corporate bastard decides it should be included under "copyright infringement" or some such b) 'ships will not sink [although, you know, I never did think the snape/broom, snape/squid, snape/dobby 'ships were very bouyant in the first place...not that HBP had any effect on them Wink

]...who goes strictly by canon when writing about snape, anyhow? How could we, when given so little to go by and what we have is through thoroughly biased eyes?
And most importantly, c) none of us really, truly knows what JKR's going to throw us next. Honestly, that final chapter she's had written for oh-so-many-years could be a Bob-Newhart-Show and Harry could wake up, 11 years old, a normal muggle kid, where magic doesn't exist. Rolling Eyes

She's crafty, and she's left things ambiguous. I can't say that Snape is on the side of the Light with any more conviction than anyone else can say he is "just evil, deal with it".

Admittedly, we can all agree that JKR hasn't left us questioning whether he's nice, as you've all said already...But isn't that part of why we're all fans in the first place? Razz

Everyone's entitled to brainstorm and ponder what-if's... Even those who like the what-if-snape-was-a-fluffy-bunny option. I er... might be inclined to agree with the naysayers on that one, but I fully admit I could be wrong, too! Wink

Last edited by ambi76 on Mon Jul 18, 2005 9:24 am; edited 1 time in total

Iseult

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 9:24 am

Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Posts: 20 Location: Newcastle, Australia

I like working class, half-blood Snape. I also like HBP because we have more information about Snape.

I like and agree with Azazello's analysis of Snape's background. Geography is not my best subject however the internet was able to provide the location of two real life Spinner's End street.

One is in the West Midland and another in Weston-Super-Mare on the West Coast of England. It is also of the same latitude as Bath but approx 20 miles from Bristol. I know the first is northern.

According to Wikipedia the Weston area was a seaside resort that later housed aircraft production and other industry. In this town Roald Dahl (a children's writer at least as brilliant as JKR) went to school and additionally John Cleese (who is Sir Nick in the movie series) was born there!

The northern Spinner's End is home to many people of the name of Homer.

Perhaps JKR used the title chapter to be a compliment to Roald Dahl and/ or Cleese. They are certainly inspirational enough to warrant it. So Snape may not be northern as Azazello suggested but he is certainl from an industrial area.

Normally, I woul't make the leap but the connection is nice and clever.

Jelly

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 10:07 am

Joined: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 1

Well...where to begin?

First may I say that I will refuse to believe that Severus has moved to the dark side...mainly because that will force me to work harder at those fantasies.............(okay stop day-dreaming Wink

) I definitely get the feeling from the book though that Dumbledore knew all about it. My theory is that Snape tells Narcissa that he knows - therefore I suggest he and Dumbledore have already discussed this and Dumbledore has made Snape agree to kill him if necessary, after all according to Dumbledore 'to the well-organised mind, death is but the next great adventure'. I think this was the argument that Hagrid overheard - Snape was having second thoughts and Dumbledore was making sure he would keep his word and again when the deed is finally done I reckon it lends to this. Also Dumbledore spends his whole year teaching Harry what he needs to know which also supports the theory. And he knows what Draco has been up to - another indicator. Another thing that annoys me and leads me to believe my theory is the fact that I don't think the Half-Blood Prince plot has fully run its course - it doesn't really feel like JKR has done it justice - yet.

Anyway, think what you will - but I prefer mine cos it allows for more scope in our wonderful stories! YAY!!!!

BTW Please don't be discouraged writers - how else will I get my fix if you stop writing?!?!?! Sad

_________________
Long live the presence of fanon Snape!!!!

Marianne

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 10:21 am

Joined: 15 Jul 2005 Posts: 25

In the first part of HP 1 he seems to be evil when Harry suspects him to steal the stone. It's only later on that we learn it's Quirrel.

Does anyone of you know whether J.K.Rowling has said anything about this development?

The crucial question for me is what shall I do now and how this site will continue. I had begun with fics myself and have just searched for a beta. I feel kind of numb.

A question to those who run this site: What will you do?

snapeaddict

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 10:39 am

Joined: 25 Dec 2004 Posts: 48

@Marianne: I think fanon has developed a life of its own and fanon presents a lot of alternative universes. So I don't think HBP will really be able to put a stop to it all. My novel-length fic on Pureblood is set after Voldemort's defeat (post volume 7...given he will be defeated at all) and Dumbledore's still alive, Snape clearly not evil and Draco unaware of the real extent of his father's involvement. So what? Put it in the bin and close the lid? No... it's just my alternative version. The Potterverse I like to dream about.

I think the closer the books get to the final battle, the more fanon and canon were bound to divide. Fan fic was about possibilities, about variations on the theme, about filling in gaps or offering alternative interpretations. So I think it's perfectly all right to keep writing fics that clash with HBP. They were bound to. That's because we're fans with their own ideas and phantasies and not Rowling clones. Wink

I like fan fic and I still love fanon Snape. I hope Jo Rowling won't be as uninventive but if she turns out to be...well..."her" Snape still inspired "my" Snape and a lot of other fan "Snapes" and HBP didn't manage to kill those.

ashley_mc_3

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:48 am

Joined: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 4

At no stage in any of the novels has there ever been any hint that Hermione and Snape would become romantically involved. Anyone who writes a fic about those two is meerly using the characters as puppets in their stories.

JK gave people the characters to play with. I don't see why people can't just ignore the new novel if it pleases them, as they have done with so many other facts throughout the series, and carry on writing romantic fics about HG/SS if they so please

JK's story is that, hers and hers alone, anyone who is thinking about writing any fic to do with any character should be aware of this fact and write a story that they like and that they would like to occur.

aphrodeia

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 2:13 pm

Moderator Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 46

Marianne wrote:

A question to those who run this site: What will you do?

Exactly what we're doing now. Very Happy

There's absolutely no reason to change.

Marianne

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 2:29 pm

Joined: 15 Jul 2005 Posts: 25

[quote="ashley_mc_3"]At no stage in any of the novels has there ever been any hint that Hermione and Snape would become romantically involved. Anyone who writes a fic about those two is meerly using the characters as puppets in their stories.

Quite clear to me, but nevertheless I have some difficulties in dealing with an EVIL Snape. I loved him - and still do - because of his ambivalence. I do tot fancy the bad guys (Lucius Malfoy for example) .

Owlbait

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 3:01 pm

Joined: 01 Jul 2005 Posts: 92

I'm not yet ready to sound the death-knell on Snape romance. Severus is a fascinating character and portraying him in the context of a romantic relationship allows a chance to show aspects of himself he would never show to anyone else. Of course that side of him can never be 'canon' because Jo just isn't going there, but she has created a three-dimensional character, not a flat one, and you can easily imagine there being more to him than what you see where ink meets paper.

Consider this:

Snape's position as a spy in Voldemort's camp was crucial in providing essential information to the Order. Still, he must have provided some information to Voldemort in order to preserve his position. It is likely people died as a result of those reports.

I vehemently oppose the notion that good ends justify any means, and I can't see Jo promoting it either. That puts Snape in a very troubling position morally. In fact, this is the part of him that I find so fascinating. Picture this:

The young, 19 or 20 year old Severus has had some kind of revalation that his choice to support Voldemort was a terrible mistake. He now wishes to recant that choice, and redeem himself. His only way to do so, and the only coin he can offer, is to continue to live and act as if he believed his original choice. He had the courage to make that bargain, and the integrity to stick with it, despite the inevitable result that he is despised by nearly everyone who's opinion is worth having.

It is that courage and integrity I find so intriguing. Where did he come by it, growing up as he did? How does he feel about himself and his choices?
How many women, and what sorts, have attracted him? I think you can learn a lot about people by observing who they love. I'm still in the camp that believes the younger Severus had feelings for Lily, and it looks good for that theory being upheld by canon. That doesn't mean I think anything silly, like there was a secret affair in which Snape engendered Harry, only that Severus was attracted to her and was probably influenced by her whether or not she knew anything about it.

Throwing an OC into the mix just gives you more scope since the canon women are rather limited, and, after HBP, largely taken. What sort of woman would be attracted to a post-HBP canon Snape? A very unusual one, she would have to have a lot of courage herself, and the perspicacity to see past a very unpleasant exterior to the worthwhile qualities hidden deep (deep!) within - and a reason or opportunity to do so. Lots of good story opportunity there.

SexGod!Snape is a myth, but then he always was, so nothing has changed there. You won't find him in my fic, I keep him locked in my closet safely out of harms way ;^)

-Liz

_________________
Owlbait at Occlumency: http://occlumency.sycophanthex.com/viewuser.php?uid=3671

Marianne

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:50 pm

Joined: 15 Jul 2005 Posts: 25

Dear Owlbait, I hope so much you are right ! thank you!

odsbodkins2005

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:57 pm

Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 17

To be honest, I think this new insight to Snape gives more to work with. My thoughts when reading chapter 2 was that this is an excellent side of Snape - one who deals with a weeping woman, one who offers support, the way he knelt down in front of Narcissa and everything. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to kid myself that Snape is an amazing sensitive person - I'm not, and the vow that he was about to make was awful. But, I do also think it shows a kind of sexiness to him Wink

And to be honest, that's what I always so in Snape from the start - right from the very first book, when we were supposed to think he was "evil" but it just gave me more to think about and wonder about him.

I felt the same when he went running from Hogwarts with Draco - the way he took control of everything.

Whether or not Snape is good or bad, we don't know for sure at the moment. I'd like to think he is on the side of Dumbledore et al, but maybe I'm wrong. But it doesn't stop fanfic authors interpreting what they have seen so far.

Also - and this may be me being a bit strange... but in the UK Children's edition cover, I like thinking that its a picture of Snapes arm. Lol, always had a think for bloke's forearms Laughing

Delirium

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:59 pm

Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Posts: 34 Location: New York

I absolutely adored Chapter 2 and the Snape JKR gave us. I'm working on a new fic and enjoying the hell out getting these characters to work together within canon as it now exists.

Wolf Moonshadow

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:59 pm

Joined: 08 Dec 2004 Posts: 12 Location: A state of delusion (Florida)

From the first book Snape and Dumbledore were my favorite characters. (And no, I never then imagined Snape would kill him.) Hermione was added to my favs list after CoS, Lupin after PoA. By the fourth book there was no doubt that Snape was the most interesting character in the series. He was one of the few characters that did not fall into the broad picture of only good or evil. As such, I suspect that I fall into the ‘Snape apologists’ grouping. I have never, however, believed that Snape was a nice, fluffy, or even romantic character. Sexy as hell, perhaps, with all that biting sarcasm, but not at all nice. While I love fanon SexGod!Snape, and all the SS/HG fics that go with it, I have always seen them as being very AU. Very fun to read, but not at all canon.

Azazello said, “What we have here is a complex morally ambiguous character who is just so not nice.” I hate to sound Hermioneish, but that is no different than what we have always had in canon. HBP has not changed that.

I need to reread HBP before I can argue any specific points or theories, (I was half asleep when I read it straight through starting at 1 am.) but I in no way see this as ruining Snape as a great character. He is far more morally ambiguous now, but in my mind that just makes him more interesting. I still don’t see him as simply good or evil, he is likely the most complex character in the books. Thus, I see this as a potential for some wonderful new fics. (But hopefully not the already clichéd ‘Hermione saves the day and Snape along the way’ fics.)

I see Snape surviving as a romantic interest, if not a romantic character. I see SS/HG surviving, both as HBP compliant and older, more AU. And I see far more potential for speculation as to Snape’s real character and motives now than previously.

Most speculation thus far seems to fall into three categories:
1) “He is still good; a spy for the light and was working on Dumbledore’s orders.”
2) “See, I told you so. . . he has always been evil.”
3) “Like the rest of the Hogwart’s staff, I was fooled. He really is evil.”

I don’t really agree with any of them. I believe him to be quite conflicted, and trying to play on both sides of the field. He could get away with it until he was forced to make an irrevocable choice. The question still is: Why did he make that choice? I think there is plenty of room for speculation, and with it some wonderful fics. Can a good writer still make us believe in Snape? I certainly hope so.

~Wolf

_________________
The wild dogs cry out in the night, as they grow restless, longing for some solitary company.
(Toto-Africa)

Delirium

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:02 pm

Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Posts: 34 Location: New York

What if he's just a bastard who plays the fence until one team looks like its coming out ahead? Even so, he's an amazing character, good, bad, evil, misunderstood, whatever.

azazello

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:25 pm

Joined: 29 Nov 2004 Posts: 183 Location: Northern UK

Delirium*

AKA Aoibheann

wrote

Quote:

What if he's just a bastard who plays the fence until one team looks like its coming out ahead? Even so, he's an amazing character, good, bad, evil, misunderstood, whatever.

Exactly, to me, I think Snape writers should see this as an opportunity. I was getting a bit bored with fairly obvious Fanon!Snape. As you would be after nearly 500K words. Now, I feel rejuvenated (though I'll not be writing SS/HG - but that's more because I was tired, than through this).

*Delirium after the wonderful Sandman character? I adore her!

_________________
Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony ~ Monty Python and the Holy Grail

All times are GMT

View next topic View previous topic Page 3 of 4 Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4 Next Sycophant Hex Forum Index ~ The Library

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum