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| aphrodeia |
 Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 2:26 pm |
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Moderator
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 46
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Two Methyloctane wrote: I can see his Boggart being Voldemort discovering that he worked for Voldemort.
I see his Boggart as being a pair of grey underpants, dancing a little mocking jig.
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I want the book now. |
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| Osiodhachain |
| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 3:09 pm |
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Joined: 19 Jul 2005
Posts: 9
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>>I am, in fact, a little fearful that there will be some very unhappy--perhaps even tragic--consequences, for some fans, of Joanne's apparent utter failure to understand a not-insignificant portion of her fan base. If that should happen....I think that, should such things happen, whether she has the decency to feel it or not, the guilt will be deserved.<<
What?! Like people are going to throw themselves off a bridge because of Snape's betrayal? That's ridiculous. I'm sorry, but if you are implying that some fans might do something rash because of this plot twist and that J.K. Rowling should feel responsible in some way...well, I just don't have the words.
I love the Harry Potter books as much as anyone, but really, they are just books in the end. I'm also as bummed as the other Snape fans out there that the Byronic hero that I had imagined Snape to be has been blown to smithereens.
But really, when I stop and look back, I never really liked Snape as more than a foil for Harry until the movies came out. The Alan Rickman factor (the visual appeal of those swirling black robes and that voice) was what sparked my Snape obsession. Honestly, I think I've read so much SS/HG fanfiction by now that my view of Snape is distorted anyway.
It's to the point where Canon Snape and Fanon Snape are two very different animals in my mind. I don't like Canon Snape. There's really nothing likable there. He's greasy, unattractive, petty, snide, pitiless, and generally cruel. He's a delicious character to read because he's not nice.
But Canon Snape has never really been a good fit for a romantic lead. Granted, there was enough leeway in the Canon before HBP to fill in gaps and make Snape a misunderstood and redeemable character. There might yet be a glimmer of hope, which has already been discussed extensively. But Canon Snape's ultimate fate, secretly good or irredeemably evil, doesn't really matter. My affection for Fanon Snape won't change, because he had been essentially a separate character in my mind for quite some time.
Does anyone else feel this way about Canon/Fanon Snape? |
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| aphrodeia |
| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 3:11 pm |
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Moderator
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 46
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Osiodhachain wrote: Does anyone else feel this way about Canon/Fanon Snape?
BRILLIANT post. Thank you! |
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| Max |
| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 3:14 pm |
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Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 17
Location: Germany
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Osiodhachain wrote: Does anyone else feel this way about Canon/Fanon Snape?
Absolutely yes.
Max
"And I'm very glad I'm not the only one." |
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| Zia |
| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 6:05 pm |
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Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 19
Location: Den Haag
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azazello wrote:
I'm not convinced either, and never have been, despite everyone telling me on and off this forum that I am.
I would love not to be convinced, and I really hope Snape is morally ambiguous, or even somewhere still good. But I cannot see how killing Dumbledore is anything but evil. I would love to hear why people still can see him on either side.
I cannot imagine Dumbledore pleading for his life, but I can imagine Dumbledore pleading with Snape not to irrivocably condemn himself by becoming a murderer.
Jo called him a deeply horrible person, and the person we saw at the end of the HP is deeply horrible. Killing a defenseless man, killing the one person who truly trusted him, maybe even loved him.
However I hope there is more to Snape than this. Because from what we have seen from his life, there has not been much light in it. Being evil seems to be the 'logical' road to take. And I hope Joan will have some twisting going on. But maybe she just wants to explore a truly passionate evil character. Because that is one huge difference between Snape and Voldemort. Snape has passionate feelings, and wants to be recognized and appreciated. Voldemort is a psychopat only interested in himself .
I just don't like that the truly big baddy our dear Lord Voldemort had everything needed to make a different choice and becoming a huge success in life, and Snape seems doomed from the start.
On the other hand, it is quite possible that the gang of Slytherins he was a member of did truly appreciate him, were his true friends, not people he wanted to imitate or suck up to. And in that case look what the light side did for him: almost got him killed, forced him to shut up about it. Do the members of the OoP like him? Trust him? I get the impression they trusted him because Dumbledore did. So maybe he is deeply loyal to the side that appreciated him instead of the side that tolerated him. And is his killing of Dumbledore the final pay back for Dumbledore forcing him to keep silent about the prank. I can easily see him to be this kind of person.
Osiodhachain wrote: . But Canon Snape's ultimate fate, secretly good or irredeemably evil, doesn't really matter.
To me it does. But that is because I was a bullying victim myself, and I know how very, very easy it is to give in to hatred and bitterness, and that was with loving parents and lots of cousins who did accept me . For a character that has nothing, to me it would be a miracle to have had him turn out differently from a spiteful, vindicative man who got stuck in his past. And that is why I still hope JKR will give him some happiness, some chance for his wounds to heal though I'm very pessimistic about it. He might have the heroic death, but I cannot see anything else for him than a tragic end to an unhappy life, whether heroic or not.
Zia |
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| luckycharms |
| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 6:29 pm |
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Joined: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 7
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Diana wrote:
Quote: Well, I'm not sure about everyone else, but I was reading Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, not Severus Snape and...
Seeing as Snape is the Half-Blood Prince is it any wonder people are discussing him and his innocence or lack there of? I have no opinion one way or the other, and frankly it won't rip me in two if Snape goes either way, but to some he does hold high a character in this series. The shock and suddeness of his actions are what have people going. People whined with all 5 of the first books, why should this be any different? There are also people out in this great void who have ideas, opinions, gripes and no one around that enjoys the HP books as much as they do, this is their only chance to discuss, vent, even bat around different ideas. Not everyone will agree with each other, but no one should feel as though they need to keep their thoughts to themselves because of irritating others. That's whats so great about discussion boards, if you don't like the tone of one there is always dozens more to view. |
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| Verity Brown |
| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 6:29 pm |
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Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 150
Location: Midwest USA
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Osiodhachain wrote: What?! Like people are going to throw themselves off a bridge because of Snape's betrayal? That's ridiculous. I'm sorry, but if you are implying that some fans might do something rash because of this plot twist and that J.K. Rowling should feel responsible in some way...well, I just don't have the words.
I now regret having written that. I was extremely upset at the time. However, I did worry, considering how badly I felt, whether some young person with more invested and less to fall back on might, as you say "throw themselves off a bridge." I was wrong to suggest that it would be JKR's fault. I do think, though, based on some experiences that I've had with my own readers, that sometimes we writers don't realize just how much power we have in in our words.
Verity |
_________________
I still have implicit faith in Severus Snape. Now more than ever. |
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| Diana |
| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:08 am |
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Head Moderator
Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 116
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Quote: There are also people out in this great void who have ideas, opinions, gripes and no one around that enjoys the HP books as much as they do, this is their only chance to discuss, vent, even bat around different ideas. Not everyone will agree with each other, but no one should feel as though they need to keep their thoughts to themselves because of irritating others. That's whats so great about discussion boards, if you don't like the tone of one there is always dozens more to view.
I agree. However, I do find myself a bit concerned about some people taking it so far. Will fans be upset? Absolutely. But actually speaking about 'depression' whether faux or genuine, is a bit much. Maybe you disagree.
I also agree that there are in fact 'dozens more boards to view' but seeing as it is my job to make sure everyone doesn't fly off the handle here and offend one another, I find it a bit upsetting to read the same topic over and over and over again. Snape. Fans depressed. Snape. Etc, etc...
I'm not stating that I do not think fans have the right to feel however they choose, but just as each and every fan whinging about Snape has a right to their opinion, I have just as much right to mine.
Diana |
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| Trickie Woo |
| Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 5:19 am |
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Joined: 24 Jul 2005
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Location: Mid Atlantic USA
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I admit I was a bit depressed last Saturday night, but within a couple of hours I realized it was just a book, and although Snape is my favorite character, he is fictional.
Osiodhachian is absolutely right. Snape as written is a mean, nasty character, very unlikable. When I started reading the books I didn't think of him as a Byronic hero, but I did think he was the best written, most intriguing, and most complex character in the books. I still find him to be that, but I have also been infected by Alan Rickman's Snape. Rickman gave Snape a sexuality and sex appeal that the canon Snape of the books didn't have, thus all the adult women Snape addicts. I became aware of Rickman in Die Hard and have found him a romantic ideal since Sense & Sensibility. Rickman made me vulnerable to fanon Snape, and Rickman's Snape is the way I see Snape in every story I read.
Rowling can do what she wants in her books, they are her intellectual property and it's her right. I reserve the right to see him as I picture him in my mind. I will see him in Alan Rickman/fanon mode whatever Rowling has planned for him. I'm Rickman's age, and I'm too old to change my mind on something that has become this deeply imbedded in my head.
I feel she will vindicate him and redeem him in Book 7, but I don't believe he will survive.
On the subject of Patroni and Boggarts, I think his Patronus would be a snake. I've learned all snakes aren't bad, and some, like a Black Snake I know, can be very social and friendly. I just don't want to pick them up. I agree with 2 Methyloctane, his Boggart would be Voldemort discovering he was Dumbledore's man |
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| liquidscissors |
| Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 6:29 am |
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Moderator
Joined: 27 Dec 2004
Posts: 164
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Quote: The shock and suddeness of his actions...
There are five previous books pointing out that Snape is a bit of a dick, why is this a sudden realisation? |
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| wonga |
| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 12:05 pm |
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Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 95
Location: Australia
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I liked Snape from the start as a character in the books simply because he was the apparent badguy with a 'nice' streak, certainly not because of his description! After watching the movies with Rickman I liked Snape even more! Anyways...
I think Snape will be redeemed and that, for lack of a better word, he is 'misunderstood', I also think he won't survive book seven. For me as a Snape fan who was/is on the look out for evidence of good traits in Snape I have seen what i would consider evidence that leads to the conclusion of Snape's innocence and seriously hope i am correct! 
I realise that there are many Snape fans out there but i don't truly think that any would be obsessive enough to hurt themselves because he turns out to be evil. We all have to realise it is just a book and what JKR decides to do with HER characters is her decision, we have to deal with that and if we can't we still have our own private Snape to fall back on. |
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