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| Iseult |
 Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 12:03 pm |
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Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 20
Location: Newcastle, Australia
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I had to double check this which is pretty bad seeing as I am an Australian and could walk outside and check this!
The Southern Cross (or Crux) is the pattern made by four stars - that create a lopsided X when visually intersected.
However you locate the southern cross by finding the stars that are closest to the earth Alpha and Beta Centaurus. So star gazers group these stars.
Additionally there is a star seen in Australia but not New Zealand is epsilon which would make seven.
So there are either four, six or seven stars (an Austalian would say seven, a New Zealander six and an astronomer four plus the two associated with it)
The Southern Cross could be seen from Egypt and Jerusalem - I am off to research if it has particular importance. |
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| astronae |
| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 1:29 pm |
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 6
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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According to Collins Pocket Guide to Stars and Planets, there are seven stars of importance in crux (plus a star cluster - NGC4755 - and a Nebula - Coalsack). Some astronomers may say eight stars as star mu is actually a binary - and if you count NGC4755 as a "star" rather than a cluster then that makes nine...
And there endeth the astronomy lesson for the night LOL... |
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| Two Methyloctane |
| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 2:37 pm |
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 96
Location: Calgary, Canada
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And it is completely plausible that astronomy plays a big part in the Horcruxes, given that Astronomy is a course at Hogwarts... well, Astronomy with a magical slant... The seven stars seems to correspond pretty well with seven being the strongest magical number.
Sorry if that makes no sense... no morning coffee yet. |
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| odsbodkins2005 |
| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:10 pm |
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 17
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What about the idea that Harry is the last Horcrux? Or his scar is, or his eyes are or whatever. Which explains why a bit of Voldemort is inside Harry - the way he can read his mind, the Parselmouth business etc. The Horcrux was created when Voldemort killed Lily or James.
Maybe I'm just not thinking it all through.... After all Voldemort is desperate to kill Harry, and he wouldn't be if he was one of his Horcrux.
Speculation. |
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| delphi |
| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 8:46 pm |
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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[quote="odsbodkins2005"]What about the idea that Harry is the last Horcrux? Or his scar is, or his eyes are or whatever. Which explains why a bit of Voldemort is inside Harry - the way he can read his mind, the Parselmouth business etc. The Horcrux was created when Voldemort killed Lily or James.
Maybe I'm just not thinking it all through.... After all Voldemort is desperate to kill Harry, and he wouldn't be if he was one of his Horcrux.
I think that Voldemort has no idea. It was clear in the book that V. was not aware when one of his horcruxes are destroyed. The last words of Snape to Harry seems to be a suggestion to keep the knowledge to himself through his mouth and his mind. Ironically, it is only through Harry that V. could find out what is going on and Harry hasn't figured it all out yet. |
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| odsbodkins2005 |
| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 8:54 pm |
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Been thinking a bit more about it... If you assume Voldemort would want to create a Horcrux after a significant death, then it would follow that he'd want to have created one after killing Harry - after all, Voldemort knew there was something about a prophecy and would have thought Harry's death significant.
But something went wrong and ended up (basically) killing himself. And so Harry became the Horcrux??? And he's now marked with a scar, the same way that the ring was marked with a crack.
Of course, if all this is true, then Voldemort cannot be killed until Harry is killed  |
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| blah_blah_blah |
| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 10:25 pm |
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Joined: 18 Jul 2005
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odsbodkins2005 wrote: Been thinking a bit more about it... If you assume Voldemort would want to create a Horcrux after a significant death, then it would follow that he'd want to have created one after killing Harry - after all, Voldemort knew there was something about a prophecy and would have thought Harry's death significant.
But something went wrong and ended up (basically) killing himself. And so Harry became the Horcrux??? And he's now marked with a scar, the same way that the ring was marked with a crack.
Of course, if all this is true, then Voldemort cannot be killed until Harry is killed
First, I understood that the crack was in the ring because Dumbledore caused it when he destroyed the bit of LV's soul that was hidden in it, and this is what damaged Dumbledore's hand.
If Harry is indeed the Horcrux it was probably an accident since LV, surely, didn't mean to "kill" himself in the process.
Anyway, if Harry is the Horcrux then he would have do die along with LV. Even without the Horcrux bisiness I figured that Harry would probably die.
Three things can happen:
1) LV wins...Harry dies
2) Harry kills LV....Harry is then, basically, a murderer. I just don't see it ending like that. SO...
3) Harry dies along with LV and the Horcrux issue makes that the most likely option.
My first thought was that Peter's silver hand might be the Horcrux...what does everyone think of that? I am still hesitant to let this theory go. I think his hand is somehow important. After book 4 everyone thought it was all about killking Lupin but that doesn't seem to fit now.
Here is my list of the Horcruxes(sp?)
1) Diary---found
2) Ring---found
3) Locket---sorta found---more below
4) Helga's Cup---strong assumption but Dumbledore agrees
5) Nagini---again, an assumption but Dumbledore agrees
6) ?????
7) still inside LV
If the Horcruxes were made in the order I listed then I figured that peter's hand would be the 6th because Cedric will killed before LV made Peter's Hand.
But possibly I am worng and Harry is #5 and Nagini #6.
I was discussing this with my sister and she reminded me that when Peter received his hand he picked up a stick and easily crushed it to dust. So, maybe the hand IS important. Maybe the hand will be used to crush the locket? But how would Harry get Peter to do this? Well, Peter does owe Harry a life debt...ah, who knows!
Back to the locket...in book 5 when everyone is cleaning out Black's house they are cleaning out some kind of china cabinet and they find a locket that none of them are able to open. I am so, so, so sure that this is the locket. And that is why I think RAB is Regulus. Possibly his middle name is Alphard...he was named for his Uncle that was hexed off the family tapestry? Of course, Alphard would have had to be disowned AFTER Regulus was born or Mrs Black would have never named her son after him.
I think JKR mentioned the locket in Book 5 for a reason; it wasn't an accident. So, has anyone noticed anything in previous books about Helga's cup?
MORE about the crazy locket! Just becasue we saw it at Grimmulad Place in book 5 does not mean it is STILL there. It could have been thrown out, hidden by Kretcher, or...stolen. Stolen by Mundungus. JKR wrote the scene about dung stealing the Black silver for a reason....so many questions! |
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| Kedd |
| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 10:41 pm |
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Joined: 24 Apr 2005
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Location: NS or ON, Canada
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Hmmm... I like your theory about Peter's hand. It would also explain why Peter has been kept around for so long, even though he screwed up brewing Voldie's potion there leading to the snake-like appearence, even though they know that he's a coward and perfectly capable of betraying them to save his worthless hide [demonstrated by his giving in of James and Lily, and by the Shrieking Shack where he cowers in front of Harry], and in spite of the fact that he doesn't seem to be particularly magically strong or intelligent.
As far as part of Voldemort's soul being in Harry/Harry's scar/eyes/whatever; that is, Harry as a Horcrux, I don't buy it. I mean, Voldemort couldn't temporarily possess Harry in OotP, I don't think he could lodge part of his soul in Harry. Voldemort can also not physically touch Harry as demonstrated by Quirrel in the Philosopher's Stone, and that was when he had a physical body [which, imho, would create a 'shielding' effect of sorts around the soul vs. being touched with pure, unencapsulated soul]. And finally, Voldemort 'died' when he tried to kill Harry -- if he was planning on using Harry's death to create another Horcrux as he didn't kill Harry it shouldn't work. Aside from the fact that he himself is now 'dead' or disembodied or whatever. So I just don't see how part of Voldie's soul can be in Harry.
While I agree that having Harry as a Horcrux would present a nice, tidy ending [and may even work well with the last word of the seventh book being scar, if memory serves] I really don't see how it is possible. Unless Harry became a Horcrux later on, in another confrontation. GoF, perhaps? [must reread the other books once this correspondence course is over...]
Anyhow, just my two cents worth!
Kedd |
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| Kedd |
| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:21 am |
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Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 8
Location: NS or ON, Canada
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This may be a bit odd, but what about Voldemort's award for 'Special Services to the School' being one? The whole 'hidden in plain sight' thing, Hogwarts being special to him, and for him, the triumph of slipping one past a suspicious Dumbledore and, quite literally, getting away with murder.
Of course, you'd think Dumbledore could feel it, if it was indeed that.
But maybe other magic would mask it.
If this makes no sense, ignore me. I'm tired and am supposed to be studying for an exam. This is much more interesting. |
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| Verity Brown |
| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:51 am |
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Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 150
Location: Midwest USA
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Kedd wrote: This may be a bit odd, but what about Voldemort's award for 'Special Services to the School' being one?
Oooooo! I think someone else already pointed out the apparent significance of trophies to Tom/LV. That would make a lot of sense. Especially since, in a way, it would be connected to his very first "murder" (of Moaning Myrtle, via the Basilisk).
Verity |
_________________
I still have implicit faith in Severus Snape. Now more than ever. |
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| JackieJLH |
| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 3:43 am |
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Joined: 23 Mar 2005
Posts: 130
Location: Florida, USA
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A little OT, but I was just thinking about the locket...if R.A.B. IS Regulus Black, and the locket Horcrux IS the same locket that was seen in the Black house:
What if Mundungus, in all of his looting, wandered off with the locket and sold it?
Not overly likely, but still...JKR makes a point of showing us that Mundungus is stealing things from Grimmauld Place and selling them. If that's true, it sure would make finding that particular Horcrux fun...poor Harry. This whole find-the-Horcruxes quest is not going to be an easy one.  |
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~Jackie
I once had a real life. Then I discovered Harry Potter. Then I discovered Harry Potter on the internet... *shrug* Real life is overrated anyway. |
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| Lariff |
| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:24 am |
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Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 36
Location: Calgary
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Quote: So, has anyone noticed anything in previous books about Helga's cup?
Hmm... what if that happens to be in Black's possesion too? The goblet we saw Dung hording off? Maybe Regulus found it and didnt have time to destroy it, so he disguised it with a Black family crest.
Far fetched.. but you know. |
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"I trust Severus Snape completely" |
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| Kherezae |
| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:29 am |
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Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 29
Location: Maryland
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| That'd make it too easy for Harry, maybe. Then again, if Dung sold off a whole bunch of Horcruxes, finding them would be a pain in the ass, so maybe not. It just seems like if there was more than one Horcrux in Black possession, it'd be kind of... weird. |
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| Lariff |
| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:31 am |
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Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 36
Location: Calgary
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Yeah I know. It's late. I'm grasping at straws.
Must... over...analyse...every...little...detail... |
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"I trust Severus Snape completely" |
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| Kedd |
| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:13 pm |
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Joined: 24 Apr 2005
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Location: NS or ON, Canada
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Although if Dung did sell them off and they managed to get their hands on Dung and find out who he sold them to, it could actually be easier. Not quite as nice as if they're just sitting on the shelves. And it'll be interesting to see [if that locket is indeed a Horcrux] just how long it takes Harry/Hermione/Ron to figure out that they've seen it before.
My money's on Hermione. |
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